Oliver Lehmann 75 questions

The reference option for this question takes to PMBook Project Cost Management.  It doesn't, however, specify how to distunguish between choices a. and b., was project canceled or closed?  Is there any mention of it in any of study materials?  Thanks


 
























  11.


You found the following earned value analysis information for a project that was recently closed-out:

SPI = 0.7, CPI = 1.0

 


The project has been cancelled while it was executed. At that time the project was behind schedule and on budget.

 


The project's deliverables have all been finished. The project came in behind schedule but on budget.

 


The project's deliverables have all been finished. The project came in ahead of schedule but on budget.

 


The project's deliverables have all been finished. The project came in on schedule but over budget.

I think the trick here is word "closed-out", it means that project had been cancelled at some point during the execution phase. In some questions word "post-mortem" is used meaning project has been cancelled for some reason and rest you know that it's behind schedule and on budget.

Dear Mr. SBUMICH

This question is mapping your understanding that - SPI  =0 .70, means some thing still remained to acomplish.

And hence option B  (The project's deliverables have all been finished) could not be a correct answer ,

Regards

Good point dude.

But let me ask you (for purposes of brainstorming), "Is it not possible that all deliverables are finished, though finished behind schedule?"

 

 

For a instant If I suppose it is in a point of time of completion close out.

Then

As per given condition SPI = 0.70, means PV is greater then BAC = EV  then AC will also be more but as per given condition EV = AC, and SPI  = 0.70 , work is running, = at execution stage.

Regards

Dude, when we speak of SPI, we dont speak about "variance". SPI and Variance are different terms. SPI is ratio, while variance is difference. When we say, the SPI is 0.7, it doesnt necessarily mean that the variance is 0.3.

Dear Mr P

By definition Planned value is supposed to be in any point of time of future as earned value. it is an estimate and it doesn't matter in future it will be happened to so.

now

supposse today is that forecasted day.

what you are finding SPI = 0.70

it means, what ever you have erarned till today or what ever work has been done till today is lesser than what it was planned at beginning of project or before beginning of project.

Its another meaning is that what was planned , has not been achievd today. it means work is running and not completed.

If at this explanation you are still differing , then I am sorry, its my view , its my understanding, I am not compelling to any body.

choice is always yours.

Regards 

 

 

 Dude u edited ur post to which i commented and now u explain new things? Hehe! Why? Coz in that post u mentioned there is 30% remaining works, seems u r mixed up with variance.  I dont argue with u dude, in fact SPI and CPI is simplest to understand. But dont impress that if SPI = 0.7 then the remaining work is 30%. anyways u already edited ur post, meaning u understood my point.

What is the correct answer to this question?  A or B???????????? http://www.cabinsinontario.com

This one is interesting, I have a bad habit of solving PMP tricky questions without applying PMP knowledge. If we just apply common sense, we can use Accept, Reject and Maybe techniques:
Accept - When we know for sure
Reject - When we know for sure its incorrect
Maybe - Not sure from the information given...may be Accept/Reject


Lets apply these just by using our common sense to all the choices and see.


Option A:
The project has been cancelled while it was executed. [Reject, cancelled is different from closed-out]
At that time the project was behind schedule and on budget. [Accept, as SPI < 1 & CPI = 1]


Option B:
The project's deliverables have all been finished. [Maybe, all been finished....might be or may not be]
The project came in behind schedule but on budget. [Accept, as SPI < 1 & CPI = 1]
 
Option C:
The project's deliverables have all been finished. [Maybe, all been finished....might be or may not be]
The project came in ahead of schedule but on budget. [Reject, as SPI < 1]
 
Option D:
The project's deliverables have all been finished. [Maybe, all been finished....might be or may not be]
The project came in on schedule but over budget. [Reject, as SPI < 1 & CPI = 1]
 
With this I can choose B, because that is the closest. I do not care anything outside the question and hence would not even open any PMP books to refer. I would not even think about SPI, CPI, PV etc for calculations.

My answer is A.


Dude, I think the clause of option A "The project has been cancelled while it was executed" is correct. I think "cancelled" can euqal "terminated" and a project enters Close Project/Phase process when it's finished or terminated. Closed-out is the final status of the project in the context. The casue of a project being Closed-out is Termination or completion.


But you're still correct, cancelled is different from closed-out because Cancellation is the cause while closed-out is the result.


I think Answer B is not correct. It's quite obvious that deliverables have not been all finished because of SPI < 1. Imagine that 10 deliverables (each has same amount of work) were planned to complete till a due date while only 7 of them were actually completed on due date. In this case you'll have SPI = 0.7. we can not see all deliverables have been finished.

Please read the brainstorming discussion on this below…
“…in no case in the question, there is no indication that the project is terminated and the given figures (SPI and CPI) do not restrict another realistic assumption that all the deliverables could have been finished though may be behind schedule in consideration of the word "closed-out".”

Dude, the answer from Ovlier Lehmann's website is A!! Actually, we don't need to think it too complicated.


Anyway, brainstorming on the solution is more import than the answer ABC itself. Adn I did find some good points from the everyboy's posts.


Thanks!

But few members are , quite annoyed with this answer and stuck with their own concepts.

One of member is asking for where it is written that terminated work is also requird close out process, or termination is also a type close out process.

He is understanding, that Cancillation is seprate process from Close Out process. where it is part of  / or a type of Close out process. 

I have already given this reference of PMBOK 4th E Page 99 section 4.6 last line, and Page 342 first few lines.

Page 99 Last line

The Close Project or Phase process also establishes the procedures to investigate and document the reasons for actions taken if a project is terminated before completion.

--------------------------------------------

Second member is asking some reasonable question that "Is it not possible that all deliverables are finished, though finished behind schedule?"

In above query it seems - that asker is understanding that SPI or PV is parameter of time while it is parameter of Money.

In most close and correct meaning it may be asked like that -  Is it not possible that before achiving Planned value (PV) at any lower EV project delivrables may be completely finished.

 In this case updated EV = updated PV and SPI  will be = 1.

While questioner is saying SPI  = 0.70, means work is still running somewhere in a length of total time span.

If somebody wants to argue on this point why not be earlier planned EV AND PV will be used here.

In this case also EV/PV = will be 1, because as per definition, Forecasted  BAC is nothing but forecasted EVat completion =PV at completion. While in problem SPI = 0.70, means work is running.

It might be somebody will ask again where it is written that as per definition, Forecasted BAC is nothing but forecasted EVat completion =PV at completion. For those in advance  - read Prepcast formula, And cumulative Planned value at completion is nothing but BAC= EV.

 =======================================================

 PMBOK E4 p 183 - SPI- is measure of progress achieved against work planned to achieve.

Means work was running while it was closed out.- Oliver Lehmann answer

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Regards

Wonderfull!


First issue:
You have copied PMBOK line from P 99. Excellent! But I am not sure whether you have read it….Ops! rather understood it. I still DO NOT see where it’s said Cancellation/Termination is SAME AS Close Out process.


I am again repeating in simple English (without PMBOK line) – During Project Close Out process, as a PM, I check if the project is finished (against project scope) or if the project is terminated/cancelled (in that case, I would investigate the reason for termination)


Second Issue:
Please do not go outside the question boundary, if I go outside the question boundary I can prove all valid PMP questions as wrong with weird references from PMBOK. In short, please restrict to the question with what being given and nothing beyond that. The question is talking about SPI, that is used to assess the magnitude of schedule variations (its a ratio). Please DO NOT mix SPI with Schedule or Performance.
* An SPI value less than 1.0 indicates less work was completed than was planned.
* An SPI greater than 1.0 indicates that more work was completed than was planned.



Given the two situations and its justification option B seems to be the closest answer. I do not say its perfect and as clean as purest water. But being “given the choice” option B is the closest. I guess same my collogue projmanpro tried to explain.


We have made the points, you want to believe it….you are most welcome. You don’t want to believe…you are again most welcome. But please DO NOT copy un-necessary PMBOK lines and try to prove something that this question does not require at all, it would create confusion for all including you. The question author might have different views while framing questions, but that’s what I feel and I have put on my views.

This is funny :)   the questions i raised for purposes of brainstorming were due to your writings and context of what u write. However, YOU EDITED YOUR POST TO WHERE MY QUESTIONS ARE DIRECTED, and then now you will divert the real issue behind my post? What a funny dude.

I support Saket's points. I am speaking out the same.

Dear Mr. Saket/projmanpro

If a project cancelled or terminated in between before completing, does it require closing process or not.

Say simply yes or no.

Regards

YES


My old boring statement – During Project Close Out process, as a PM, I check if the project is finished (against project scope) or if the project is terminated/cancelled (in that case, I would investigate the reason for termination). Can you show me where’s its being said NO?


Sugar is needed to make coffee…agree and accepted. You are saying “If sugar is needed to make coffee…Sugar is coffee”, I have objection to this.
 

In previous post I asked

"If a project cancelled or terminated in between before completing, does it require closing process or not."

And your answer is YES

Now I want to quote here part A statement of your reply dated 23/5

Option A:
The project has been cancelled while it was executed. [Reject, cancelled is different from closed-out]
At that time the project was behind schedule and on budget. [Accept, as SPI < 1 & CPI = 1]

In above statement - line  - "The project has been cancelled while it was executed". - is required close out process.

and hence you cant REJECT this truth.

I put an example in your way as you are fond of those practice:

I am preparing a tea. I make my stove on and put pan with water then add milk and suger. Now I want to add tea but I found Tea is not available.

Then I off my stove and I just put back sweet milk water in freeze and had washed that pot.

Thus my project cancelled in between and closed out.

Now I mean to say option A could not be rejected.

- on the basis that "cancelled" is different from "close out". - my saying hence dont seperate cancelled is different process, it is early part of close out particular in this example.

IN THIS SCENARIO I SAID CANCELLED IS NOT DIFFERENT BUT IT IS A PART OF CLOSE OUT AND IT IS A TYPE OF CLOSE OUT ( means close out may be after completion of project is a one type and close out may be in middle of project on cancellation or uncomplete project)

Regards

 

 

sspawar my dear, my answer is "or"   (lets have some laughs dudes).  Why "or"? how can i answer only "yes" or only "No" your question has mentioned both option. You should have asked either one only, so my answer could be specific, either "yes" or "no". See how questions could be tricky and how analysis could be as wise and smart as dealing with the PMP actual exam?

Well, to satisfy the intent of your question (but not the context), cancellation or termination of a project, though goes through some defined processes of the general "Closing Process Group" especially the "Close Procurement" process but in most cases a special case. Remember that the Closing Process Group has only two (2) processes involved, these are the 1) Close Project or Phase and 2) Close Procurement process.  Hence, there must be a real care when to say or use the word cancellation vis-a-vis "closed-out".

For you dude and guys to deeply learn this, as my colleague saket who is also a PMP trainer, you need to read once again these chapters (these 2 closing process group processes) and understand very well. When we say that the project is "Closed-out" meaning, it has gone through all the satisfactory procedural requirements of this Process which are quite and obviously more inclined to verification of deliverables and meeting the project's objectives. In my appreciation of the word "Closed-Out" as a technical definition, it has to refer to a completion of the project afar from just a mere project cancellation or termination. Look, in essence, if you mean the project is complete, then why would you use the word cancelled, or the other way around, if you mean that the project is cancelled or terminated, why should you say closed-out or complete? 

Notice that i already pointed out in my prior posts that this question has a similar question already posted in this forum and somewhere else, however the only difference is that the word "post-mortim"was used to clearly connote the idea of cancellation or termination before the project is completed. 

I and Saket are obviously having the same context of argument here. 

Going back to my previous notions, noticed i have asked these questions.

1. "Is it not possible that all deliverables are finished, though finished behind schedule?"  Note also that this question was raised in response to your point that "The project's deliverables have all been finished) could not be a correct answer ".  So if that is the case, then why the word closed-out is used instead of saying post-mortim or cancelled? Notice that as per PMBOK4, accepted deliverables are a foremost INPUT of Close Project or Phase process. Though you are right, in your pasted line from PMBOK4, page 99 that Close Project/Phase also establishes procedures to investigate and document the reasons related to project termination or cancellation. Saket is correct in his rebut against your notion or understanding of this context as he said, you should have understood it. And now i will tell you what i am sure Saket was refering. Take note dude that Close Project/Phase only provides the procedures related to investigations and documentations of the reasons for actions taken if a project is terminated or cancelled before completion. And obviously, take note that these investigations and documentations are far from the true processes involved in the context of Closing project/phase e.g. acceptance of deliverables.

2. "beyond the elapsed contractual duration, should SPI not to be used anymore as a performance measuring tool?" - i think you have never answered this question. I raised this question based on your premise that an SPI less than 1 would never mean in the context of the question that the project has never been completed. I could have deciphered that from your illustrative calculations. When SPI <1 for instance, which means less work is achieved than planned, what if it came to a time where there is a schedule delay beyond the contractual duration, is there an implication of the values of SPI e.i. < or > 1? In other words, is it possible that at some time beyond the contractual duration (meaning there is delay already in the project completion) the value of SPI could also be > 1? and would just simply mean that at that point of time, the achieved works are more than the planned works?  Can you see the logic here? If you say, yes it is possible that SPI could be > 1 even if the project completion is already delayed as per the required contractual duration of completion, then it will draw up a conclusion that SPI would never necessarily tell us that if it is >=1, then the project's performance is healthy. There could be a hypothesis behind this, that must be considered by PMI, and should be intellectually explained in PMBOK. I can prove my idea and this hypothesis and i could publish it a proper time.  

 

Therefore, going back to the question with all of my premises and Saket's as well, considering that the question never connoted any truth regarding cancellation or termination, while in my professional judgement and also supported by specific articles in the PMBOK, the given facts in the question does not restrict the assumption of having all the deliverables completed because of the word "Closed-Out", hence my Option is B, which is also saket's.

I know that the only realistic choices are A and B however. Lastly, as saket has told us, Mr. Oliver could have his own view in framing the question, otherwise the question could be said to be not properly worded, or there is such a PMBOK provisional crisis here ha ha! just like in a government when there are conflicts between certain laws and the constitution, there is what we call "constitutinal crisis".

Sorry dudes if i wrote very long.. Remember I am a technical writer (and a lawyer said my dear good dude sspawar he he) 

See my earlier post dated 25/5 18:16,

Your point second is already replied there.

Anwers for rest of lecture is concluded in my earlier reply.

Though here you could not reply my question. In place of that you made so many work around.

While Mr. Saket, fairly and honestly has replied very correct saying "YES"

Second I always use some motivational and feel good appriciation for others. I was saying lawyer in that way.

So keep tempo up and enhance your maturity level.

Be fair and be knowledge seeker.

It is not a place of gossip or nonquality fun.

Regards

 

I think dude you are not reading well. As i told you, your question is not answerable by a single YES or a single NO. Though, i explained to satify the intent of your question. Could you not understand that dude? You got to pick up certain good points in my posts the technicality of using the word "closed-out" independently. It is NOT a gossip to say that the inherent meaning of Closed-Out as per PMBOK is project completon as having a foremost input of ACCEPTED DELIVERABLES, though as a process it determines certain procedures related to investigation and documentation of how the actions are taken in cancelling or terminating the project before is completion. Unlike the similar sample question that used the word "post-mortem" to connote termination or cancellation, that question used "closed-out" as an independent word.

Dont you really understand that my second question jsut requirewes a Yes or No answer? Did you just write "Yes" or No in your alleged answer to this posted yesterday at 18:16? We are of different time zone dude, if u want to answer that point write it directly.

I will repeat the question again here: I will reword it to simplify:

1. At any point beyond the contractual duration of the project to complete, is it possible that SPI can be >1?

2. If your answer is Yes, then at this point of time, can we still say that the SPI being >1 tells us that the project performance is healthy as this is in fact the conclusion of SPI>1?

3 Otherwise, if your answer is NO, does it mean that SPI cannot be a performance measurement tool anymore if the project has already elapsed its contractual duration with out valid given extension of time?

I would appreciate your direct answers here.

Oh man, you even took my “Yes” in wrong way and you are so happy to have won a battle it seems.


I said “Yes” for the PMBOK line you copied and NOT WHAT YOU UNDERSTOOD. Even you understood my “Yes” wrongly. I guess, “understanding” is the basic issue for you man!


If you say this…
IN THIS SCENARIO I SAID CANCELLED IS NOT DIFFERENT BUT IT IS A PART OF CLOSE OUT AND IT IS A TYPE OF CLOSE OUT.


I completely disagree! I hope this makes sense to you now.

i like this blog……….thank u!! www.urfinancing.com

 

Dear All and Mr. Pro...

 

If I say SPI= 0.70

it means  = EV/PV  = 0.70

=>    EV/PV = 0.70/1.00

it means

EV =  a*0.70  and   PV = a*1.00 , where "a" is multipling factor to make the ratio - values in a certain amount.

now

Variace

SV = EV-PV

SV = a*0.70 - a*1.00 = -0.30a

now

you can understand -0.30a is 30% remained work of what total planned (1.00a)

----------------------------------------

I have explained logically  in 2 ways why option A will be correct.

Are you agree or not , are u understanding or not, it doesn't matter.

Though I can presume you are understanding everything, but to extract the more clarity, you arguing like a lawyer.

-----------------------------------------

In Mr. Saket answer- Project cancellation is being shown as a different from project close out.

As per page 342 and 99 of PMBOK, work cancellation /termination is also a type of project close out or it is also needed the prococess of project closure.

As per Rita also any project whether it has been left uncomplete will follow procedure of close out.

------------------------------------------------------------

As I understand in this forum many silent readers are here. I can believe if they will learn or read once the Defination of PV and EV , they can decide by them what should be the answer.

-----------------------------------------------------------

why this confusion arise, I also write on this issue:

Actually when we talk on the basis of SPI, that project is behind schedule or ahead schedule, we assume time factor. And this transit factor make our mind that PV is a parameter of time like 6 month, 1year or so and its unit is time unit,

In fact

PV EV AC are the parameter of Money,  as per PMBOK these are WPM in a point of time, cumulative cost of a project.

It means these are the figures at one point of time, say project started on 1-1-12 now today is 24-5-12, 10 am.

At this time what is PV EV AC.

So PV is somewhat decided at the beginning of project, which is planned.

while EV is what has been worked done actually as on today at 10am.

So we can easily say project is behind schedule or ahead of schedule.

-------------------------------------------------------------

By your first reply what you have argued , that project may completed in additional time over what it was originally planned and thus SPI may be 0.70.

This argument is only come because of a slip concept that SPI is a indication of time delayed.

while SPI is a value index which shows at certain point of time what value cumulative has been earned against of what it was planned.

On the basis this ratio or difference, (EV/PV or EV-PV), we decide that value earned is behind or ahead of what was originally planned and in short we say project is behind schedule or ahead of schedule.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This time it is enough, If time permit I will come back to answer of all doubts of you and all.

One more request:

Be the subject /target oriented---- our target is whether option A or option B.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards

 

 

Here are some facts I know:
• Close Project or Phase - ensure completion before considering the project closed. Can I not say this "Project closed-out - ensures that the deliverables have all been finished"?
• The Close Project or Phase process also establishes the procedures to investigate and document the reasons for actions taken if a project is terminated before completion.


Questions: (Applies to multiple people)
• Work cancellation/termination is also a type of project close out or it is also needed the processes of project closure. From where did you get this line?
• The trick here is word "closed-out", it means that project had been cancelled. From where did you get this?


Once the deliverables are done the PM measures "project completion” or “reason for termination” before closing the project. What is confusing here?

I totally agree with Saket and supporting his premise. Even me, my choice is B. As obviously pointed out in my probeng questions, the context was actually - in no case in the question, there is no indication that the project is terminated and the given figures (SPI and CPI) do not restrict another realistic assumption that all the deliverables could have been finished though may be behind schedule in consideration of the word "closed-out".

This question is similar actually to one of the questions already posted here, but that one has the word "post-mortem" which of couse means - the project was terminated. But this one is different.

For all others :-


Common Sense again: (Feel free to throw stones on me)
1. Post-Mortem, Cancelation, Termination, Accidental, Un-Natural etc should be compared as they all signify something otherwise than planned ending. Think real life when is Post-Mortem done during death, it’s always done when you have some suspicion over the reason for death, right?
2.  Close project, project close or phase, completion, Project closed-out etc should be seen in a similar way. Real life scenario - When a case file is closed or closed-out, it does not mean the case is left incomplete.


You don’t need to open and scan books line always, if you do that, you will become a book worm and would never understand Project Management.
 

 What is the correct answer to this question?  A or B? 

Dear Mr. Goldie

A is correct answer.

Read complete posts for understanding.

Regards

Excellent analogy dude..

I dont argue with you actually. In fact, even my first post, i clearly emphasized "for purposes of brainstorming only" as you implied that deliverables in no case cannot be complet given a "delayed" status. That's why i just asked for brainstorming purpsoes only, the question, "IS IT NOT POSSIBLE THAT ALL DELIVERABLES ARE COMPLETED THOUGH COMPLETION IS BEHIND SCHEDULE?"  Well, for sure all PMP will agree with me if i say, IT IS POSSIBLE, though without any valid reason for EOT, then penalty must be imposed against the contractor.

Now, if you will say within that context of the question where SPI is given to be less than 1, (0.7), again another question for brainstorming purposes only, "beyond the elapsed contractual duration, should SPI not to be used anymore as a performance measuring tool?" 

By the way, i really enjoy reading everybody's posts in replies. It is obvious that you guys are trully learning. Well, as what i explained then, i am doing this to encourage learning among each other. As you wondered why the way i raise questions and the way i rebut is like a lawyer, the reason probably is because i have been a professor and PM trainer, a planning and PM consultant and a technical writer/contributor.

 

 

B should not be correct as 0.7 is huge difference as e.g. 0.9. My answer is A