WBS - Question !!

Submitted by sam_jain on Wed, 05/09/2012 - 04:28

The WBS is an input to all of the processes EXCEPT:

A. Scope verification

B. Cost estimating

C. Activity definition

D. Plan purchases and acquisitions

E. Cost budgeting

Correct Answer : A

My Answer --> WBS is an input to all the above processes - directly or indirectly ( Scope Baseline)

Please advise.

Regards,Sam

Forums:

General Discussion

projmanpro

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 06:02

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sam, the question is just a

sam, the question is just a simply straight forward question, that needs answer according to PMBOK. See PMBOK 4 page 123, "Verify Scope" you will never find WBS as among the Inputs. That is the simply straight forward explanation to ur query.

In detail explanation:

Remember that WBS are the lists of decomposed work packages need to be done in order to produce that "deliverable". Deliverables form part of the scope, so if we say, verify scope, it means verify completed deliverables, and to verify completed deliverables doesnt need WBS. If we verify WBS, we are not validating or verifying deliverables, but only the activities (or work packages - PMBOK term).

My general comment on the question. This is a poor quality question due to:

The choices are not correctly written. Considering that the question speaks about a straight forward "process" then it has to be consistent with PMBOK terminology.

To correct, "Cost estimating" is not the correct PMBOK4 "process" term but "Estimate Cost". Cost estimating is an obsolete term in PMBOK3 which was changed to Estimate Cost in PMBOK4.

"Activity definition" is not the PMBOK correct term that is "Define Activities". Activity definition may have different essential meaning from "Define activities." Activity definition may refer to an already given definition of an activity, while in "define activities" - definition is yet to be done and implies an action to do. This concept applies to all changes in terminology in PMBOK3 to PMBOK4. You see now the difference?

"Plan purchases and acquistions is not a "defined" PMBOK4 process. This is one of the obsolete term which is now changed to "Plan Procurements". Meaning that question is NOT PMBOK4 COMPLIANT AND THAT IS FATAL.

"Cost Budgeting" is not a PMBOK4 process terminilogy, Again, this is an obsolete term that was changed to Determine Budget

NOW, NO NEED TO ASK YOU FROM WHICH MOCK TEST YOU GOT THIS QUESTION, BUT I WOULD TELL YOU AVOID USING SUCH MOCK TEST, FIND THOSE MOCK TESTS THAT ARE UPDATED AND PMBOK4 COMPLIANT.

sam_jain

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 16:24

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I agree but..

I agree but if we see from different angle :-

As per PMBOK - Project Management Plan is an Input to Verify Scope and per PMBOK ( Page no 154) - Scope Baseline hat includes Scope statement , WBS and WBS dictionary is considered in the Project Management Plan. Hence in a way WBS is an input to Verify Scope.

Can not we use the above reasoning for the question?

Regards,

Sam

saket_pmp

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 06:32

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I completely agree with projmanpro

Sam – I completely agree with projmanpro, please apply your common sense and judge what you are trying. If your path itself is wrong you can NEVER reach the destination. While choosing and attempting mock test make sure:
1. Its written using PMBOK 4th Edition or have been refered from books that have been made seeing PMBOK 4th edition.
2. Question has 4 choice and you have to choose 1 correct answer
3. As a preferred choice look for questions that have been updated after 31-Aug-2011 changes, although this is not mandatory, but it should be a preferred choice.
Always check these before you buy or look for Mock Test available across hundred of websites.

Keep in mind you cannot go to moon with ropes, you need to have space shuttle. You can NEVER pass PMP if you follow a wrong material that is not fit for it. I know from which PDF you are trying, but for the sake of privacy protection I would not take name here, but request you not to try any further question.

sspawar

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 08:14

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PMBOK 5.4.1.1 page 124 just 1

PMBOK 5.4.1.1 page 124 just 1 page ahead of p 123, - says WBS is input of Verifying Scope.

Though this question from whereever be , it is old stuff/stock. before of 4th edition

The terms:

Of option B C D and E has been revised - see PMBOK p 353, 354 and 356, old things revised in app. A

Currently PMP exam multiple choice options will be only 4. Five options are old pattern.

Regardding wrong treminology

I have seen many such questions in reputed sites stuff and books, which are based on PM BOK 4 ED - only 2 options are generally found very close to answer in which one will be correct. But other 2 may be concerned or nonconcerned or even far away from PMisms, including of wrong phrases or terms.

In all it does not mean that this completely wrong, but not so refined as of todays scenario. For sake of our betterment, we should follow latest and current materials.

Now a days lots of online material is available, much of advices and guidelines are flowing in the channel. You may always take advantages of these all.

I appriciate immediate comments provided by earlier repliers.

As per my opinion all options have input of WBS

Regards

projmanpro

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 18:31

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Sspawar, forgive me but i

Sspawar, forgive me but i will speak to you frankly for your sake. What you see in Page 124 as wBS, yes it is there - BUT,,, PLEASE UNDERSTAND that the WBS is there not written as INPUT OF VERIFY SCOPE, BUT UNDER "PROJECT MANAGEMENT PLAN" The INPUT there is Project Management Plan, while WBS, WBS dictionary ARE ONLY ELEMENTS OF THE PROJ MANAGEMENT PLAN.

Please understand first dude. Again, i would advise you. Limit your understanding from what the pmbok4 really says, and not on your own interpretation, especially if you are careless in your interpretation, OTHERWISE, THAT WOULD BRING YOU TO FRUSTRATION IN PASSING THE PMP EXAM.

Well, I idont urge you to believe in me, or saket, or anyone here, you have the freedom anyways, its up to you.

About rephrasing of some terms, please also note that NOT ALL REPHRASING are wrong. But if questions are to relate straightly to process groups which requrie the exact term, then they have to be written in correct term, though there could be questions that may have rephrased words as tricks.

saket_pmp

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:12

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It should be A

I am a very down to earth person, for many PMP questions I do not like even referring PMBOK because I believe you can attempt around 30-40% of questions by just using common sense. Think this way, WBS, when and where do you use WBS? Think real life if you have used – It’s used when you plan your deliverables (Activities), you break down big deliverables into smaller unit so that its easy to manage, work and track. In real life that’s what the role of WBS is. If I have to say one word when it is used, I would say during “Planning” my work.

Choice B to D sounds like planning activity to me (without applying any PMP knowledge). Scope verification, I would never say its planning activity, you are verifying something that was already planned. The key here is verifying.

With this said so, the correct answer is “A”. I again repeat, I did not use any PMP knowledge nor referred any PMBOK material to derive this answer. I just used my common sense.

I have made my points, whether you believe it or not, it’s all your call now (as projmanpro also said).

Out of box information – If you scan words of a sentence, its meaning will change. Always understand the paragraph and sentence i.e. story it says and never words. Water molecules will appear like water only when you see it like a drop. If you see it as H2O, you will never see water.

projmanpro

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:27

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I like ur analogy saket, u

I like ur analogy saket, u are totally correct.

sspawar

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 03:32

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Input of Input

Like Option A, option E has also the same pecularity.

Cost Budgting - new phrase is -Determine Budget - have Input of Cost base line and cost baseline have a subset input of WBS.

Does it mean E is also not a option acceptable.

It is heurestic - rule of thumb that - common sense is not a positive factor to get success in PMI Exam.(by prominent PMP book writers)

It is also true that word have no meaning till it versed in thoughts.

There are many ifs and Buts all around our life.

It will be better to defuse this question - because it is at old pattern.

Regards

PMNovice

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 18:59

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WBS

A should not be the right the right answer because WBS(part of plan) is an input as far as page 124 of the PMBoc is concerned.

projmanpro

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:37

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Dude, if i ask you like this,

Dude, if i ask you like this, "Which hot drink i should take in the morning along with my breakfast roll bread?"

A. Coffee

B. Hot Water

C. Sugar

D. Cream

FOR SURE, YOUR ANSWER WILL BE COFFEE, and you will never tell me COFFEE CANNOT BE THE CORRECT ANSWER AS HOT WATER IS AN ELEMENT OF A COFFEE TOO???

Come on guys!!! IF THE QUESTION IS ABOUT ITTO, LIMIT YOUR ANSWER SPECIFICALLY TO ITTOs, otherwise, YOUR ANSWER WILL BE PMBOK. Why? Well, everything is WRITEN IN PMBOK ha ha!!

PMNovice

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:22

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Projmanpro,That's funny :).

Projmanpro,

That's funny :). Thanks for making a point here but I guess comparing the question above to your question won't be a true analogy. Because question was asked otherway around(WBS, Plan or PMbock are not an option to choose but in the question). I read somewhere that if you have to choose from from several similar answer we should choose MOST whollistic answer. In your case it's coffee because it contains Hot water, Sugar and Cream as well. What you would like in the morning would be your choice :)

As far as actual answer to this question is concerned: this question is not a true PMP question as it has five options. And the purpose of this question is to generate interest and curiosity so that we learn more and this question has served that purpose well.

Thanks,

projmanpro

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 02:52

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Pmnovice, u exactly hit my

Pmnovice, u exactly hit my point - "wholistic answer". As regards input of verify scope, it is proj mgt plan and NOT WBS, in page 124 of pmbok4. Wbs there was written to describe the proj mgt plan along with other elements. Therefore, wbs there is only an element of the proj mgt plan. Just like in my funny illustration, hot warer is only a component of coffee.

The question is a direct ITTO question but NOT CORRECTLY WORDED as per PMBOK4 terms, i emphasized this in my earlier post. Though, in the context we can still say, the correct answer must be A as wbs is NOT an INPUT of verify scope.

saket_pmp

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 08:53

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Interesting things should have some interesting story also!

Input to Close Procurements/Close Project or Phase is Project management plan. One of the input to Develop Project management Plan is Project charter. One of the inputs of Develop Project Charter is Business case. The business case is created as a result of Market demand.

The above word scanning from PMBOK (with closed brain) proves that Input to Close Procurements/Close Project or Phase is dependent on Market demand!

I am NOT going to explain this why I did this and what I want to tell you. A joke should not be explained!

A Story – Consider a scenario of long race, where you have to run for 10 miles. The person who has ability to run fast will run fast during the start and will get tired very quickly and will loose the race. The winner always runs slow, preservers the energy and applies the saved energy during right time in this long run.
Morel of the Story – You do not win a long race with the running capability you have rather you win a race with the mind game you play i.e. strategy.

In one of the comment I saw an interesting note – “No books talks about applying common sense”. I agree, why should these be said? Read the story I said above and decide yourself how do you win the race and think how are you going to answer PMP questions.

Saket, PMP

sspawar

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 14:52

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Cost Budgting

In my earlier reply I wrote that Cost budgting (New term - determine Budget) - does not have WBS as an direct input . (as per ITTO). It has input scope baseline and subset of scope base line is WBS.

So it (option E) is also an exception as good as option A., it means there is 2 answers.

Apart from this discussion, Few things I want to share again:

While answering any question - our answer should be specific and direct concerned to the subject.

We should avoid moral stories, personal feelings - which are against of others or commented on colleagues/forum members.

Our attitude should be knowledge and subject oriented. if you find that your view is not being attended by others and they are posing their own views against of your view- in such situation - you should put more supporting matters rather making stories, hootings/ tauntings. It diverts our area of interest.

It is tendency that every one have his own understanding perception common sense, but when you are expressing your view to others you have to explain what common sense what understanding what perception you are considering as a support for your views.

We are here not to compel any one , but to share the views of each others. when we have put our view, we should be satisified. it is not necessary that it will be universally accepted.

If my above sharing thoughts are not appropriate or unacceptable to any body then please ignore it do not revert.

Regards

projmanpro

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 17:54

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U have the point dude that

U have the point dude that option E has also no WBS as input (under PMBOK4) BUT IT COULD NEVER BE THE CHOICE COZ PMP EXAM HAS ONLY 4 CHOICES and CHOICE 5 MUST AUTOMATICALLY BE DROPPED. However, in PMBOK3, Cost Budgeting has WBS as Input, while Scope Verification STILL HAS NO WBS AS INPUT. THAT IS WHY, THERE IS NO POINT OF ARGUMENT IN FACT, obviously, as what i emphasized alredy in my earliest post, this question is within the PMBOK3 format.

Further, DONT U KNOW WHY THERE WERE REACTIONS FROM ME AND SAKET, for u guy is trying to convince us that WBS IS AN INPUT TO VERIFY SCOPE. That is the core of arguments AND NOW IT SEEMS U ARE SAYING, WHAT WE ARE SAYING ABOUT THAT WBS IS NOT AN INPUT OF VERIFY SCOPE IS CORRECT (but E must also be correct).

Ur point is correct that everyone has his own view, but as what i told u, in my case i cannot just remain silent if other's opinion is obviously wrong. As what i and saket said, if u dont believe in us, then its up to u.

sspawar

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 09:16

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Since starting

Since of start I am saying that this question is on old pattern and have no one option is right.

In last reply I am saying that If option A its answer then on the same logic why not be the answer E.

Then your argument is that - it is option 5 and should be automatically dropped, but it is there.- in my opinion this is not a justufied answer. then youwill say it is not as per PMP EXAMP PATTERN.

Thats why Since of begining I have proposed to discard this question.

----------------------

Dear Mr Saket and "projmanpro"

Reactions: are natural phenamena..

But it should be in gentle and modest manner. IN forum, dont write dominating phrases and notes/comments.

If I say indicating somebody - closed brain , this is how painful.

I consider you as a learned persons, your speeches may be charismatic but should not be hatered and irritative.

In a forum drop your complexes apart and be first a generous man. There are many of chances particular in such a indefinite natured forum, conflicts of interest be always. They will suck your brain, will make you tempered man. It is not your world, but you are here for them. So treat peacefully and coolly.

No one complete in this world, no one is proudless in this world.

regards

projmanpro

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 11:43

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spawr dude, i really cannot

spawr dude, i really cannot understand why are u trying to brag? go back to your first comment and see in the semi last sentence.. see this own statement of yours, "As per my opinion all options have input of WBS" ?????? Let say on the basis of PMBOK 3, HOW DID U SAY THAT ALL OF THEM HAVE INPUT OF WBS? This is the root of my argument. I WAS ARGUING NOT FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN YOU & SOOME GUYS ARE BRAGGING WBS AS AN INPUT OF VERIFY SCOPE.. MOREOVER, SINCE THE QUESTION IS WITHIN PMBOK3 LOGIC, OPTION E HAS NO WBS AS INPUT AS PER PMBOK3. I already emphasized this dude. Maybe you are not just reading my post before reacting, or you are not understanding my post before reacting.

Also notice that i posted earlier than u and in my earliest post, i already emphasized that the question is NOT PMBOK4 COMPLIANT, u dont need to impress this upon me, coz i know this.

sspawar

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 12:16

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yes you are correct

Earlier I was telling all option are having input as wbs and no clear answer is there.

But as per your view answer A is correct, When I put my argue, you told that it is not direct input as per ITTO.

then I again replied that on this logic , E also should not be having WBS as INPUT.

And there would be thus 2 answers, thus again this question comes under dispute- what I told wrong in this.

I am saying since of begining hence discard this question.

Any way If you are still not finding it true , then ignore it. It is not compulsion to agree upon to any body.

Its my view.

You are very prominent active and continuous member of this forum. I appriciate your status.

Regards

projmanpro

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 19:41

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i also do appreciate this

i also do appreciate this brain storming dude, this is great really.

But lastly, i would reiterate my point, that question is PMBOK3 format, and Choice E has WBS as input as per PMBOK3, while scope verification has none.

sspawar

Tue, 05/15/2012 - 02:24

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Is it not intresting?

Dear ALL

It is interesting that, in whole PMBOK 3 or 4 , as per ITTO no where WBS is a input for any of 42 processes.

It is subset of project management plan or scope base line as INPUT for various processes.

Regards

projmanpro

Tue, 05/15/2012 - 03:15

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Sspawar My Dear, when are u

Sspawar My Dear, when are u going to take ur PMP exam? I recommend dude, spend more time to study.

If you are only confused of what you are saying, OK i will coach u dear. Follow me:

Turn your PMBOK 3 in the following pages:

Page 167, 7,2 - You will see that WBS is an input of Cost budgeting

Page 51. Table 3-13. You will see that WBS is an input to Cost Estimating

Page 49: Table 3-7. You will see taht WBS is an input to Activity Definition

Page 54, Table 3-22, You will see taht WBS is an input to Plan purchases and acquisition.

Hmmmmm... OK you are right, you cannot find WBS there, but only "Work breakdown structure" :-)

Anyways, if what you are sying is your opinion sspawar, i respect ur opinion.

But if that is about bein glack of knowledge, i advise u study well. And dont post please with information that are too much opinionated and HAS NO BASIS AT ALL, OTHERWISE YOU ARE POLLUTING AND SPOILING THE LEARNING OF PMP ASPIRANTS HERE, maybe the admin may block u.

saket_pmp

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 18:29

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I completely support you on your comments

Mr Pawar Ji (Ji is a respect in Indian context)

I completely support you on your comments and feelings expressed, you have said one very important line i.e. “our answer should be specific and direct concerned to the subject”. I am trying my best to stick to it and the story I am writing for you guys is because you understand in real life how project management should be seen. I am an old person my friend and you are young…..I know this. By telling some stories and real life truth, I am trying to show you the real use of project management, I am trying to convince you, see project management as a game you play, take interest, think real life, don’t be book worm. Try to get into the question as a character, and think that you were a manager, what would do in such situations etc…this is all I am trying to say through stories. I am an instructor and hence it’s my language today.

A ship like TITANIC can also sink, if you do not apply common sense when required and just stick to bookish theories.

If any of my comments is hurting you, I apologize. But, at the same time, I will keep commenting the same and would NOT stop. I want people to think real life, out of box, come out of book words, discover techniques that can help you to answer many PMP questions etc. I have a good motive and when I know its good, I will not stop.

As always, please flush my writing if you do not like. I always say, believe in yourself if you can, it will help you more to become stronger human.

zzzzz

Fri, 06/08/2018 - 03:59

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